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June 28, 2004

Comments

John Climacus

Interesting thought, and original. I think you're more likely to have terrorism with a Kerry victory though. I'm no idealist but there is a part of me that still thinks, except among the hard core leftist idiots, the rage among the Democratic rank and file is based on misinformation, i.e. once they see Bush was right on Iraq and the Patriot Act, they'll see they've been duped.

Susan

I said the very same thing to my sister yesterday. I also think that much of the liberal rage these days stems from the 2000 election results (heck, just look at Mr. Unhinged Al Gore). I don't want another close call. I don't think I can handle it.
signed, a lonely Bush fan in Chicago

Susan

I said the very same thing to my sister yesterday. I also think that much of the liberal rage these days stems from the 2000 election results (heck, just look at Mr. Unhinged Al Gore). I don't want another close call. I don't think I can handle it.
signed, a lonely Bush fan in Chicago

Ugly Truth

" I would still prefer it to the massive civil unrest and domestic left-wing terrorism that would likely result if Bush wins narrowly."

Oh please! The Left are weaklings. They are only PHYSICALLY dangerous when they wield the levers of the State.

Here is a tread on that topic:
http://www.no-treason.com/Sabotta/16.php

w

...if there is another 2000 election type of situation, and Bush wins again, it could tear this country apart...

please, hang in there. the only thing that will split apart is the democtratic party. this has been building for twenty years (i used to be a democrat). this is their rockefeller/goldwater moment. don't give up, don't give in, DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID

pdf

So when somebody says "A vote for Kerry is a vote for Bin Laden" in a blog comments section, it's A-OK (I've seen it literally dozens, and maybe scores, of times; it's quite a tenacious meme), but when somebody prints the converse on a T-shirt, it's a crisis?

Oh, and in answer to your question above: I'm sure you're going to say they're not people "of repute," but Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter have quite openly declared any belief to the right of Cheney to be traitorous. I refer you not only to Coulter's book "Treason," but to the subhead of Hannity's book "Deliver Us From Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism And Liberalism." Clearly, the intent is to mark those three things as equivalent to one another.

I want Bush to lose not because of the war (no matter what the right-wing punditocracy says, the war will continue unabated under Kerry), but because of his economic and social policies. Plus, I'm opposed to one-party rule. If Democrats can't win back one of the houses of Congress, they've gotta take the White House. Balance must be restored.

Eric

pdf:

Obviously, I'm saying that I don't support such stupid, extreme rhetoric from either side.

pdf

>Obviously, I'm saying that I don't support such stupid, extreme rhetoric from either side.

These days, reasonability is never obvious, from either side. Everyone is a maniacal partisan until proven otherwise.

Ugly Truth

Let me cut and paste from the essay I linked to:

"Our would-be fifth columnists are no threat. Despite the boasting and bluster they indulge in on their message boards, they are afraid of weapons and are mostly unarmed. And, more importantly, they are cowards. Their anti-government veneer will vanish when a Democrat is elected President again - then they'll worship law n'order as they did during the Clinton years. All they can do is provide harmless amusement.

And it's so satisfying to see their fear."

http://www.no-treason.com/Sabotta/16.php

Eric

Ugly Truth:

I agree that members of the far left are generally physical cowards on an individual level, and are less likely to carry guns; but I'm not talking about open conflict here. I'm talking about terrorism, which is a tactic of the cowardly. There's quite a history of is left-wing terrorism in this country: Kathy Boudin, Weather Underground, etc. I think that if despite the efforts of George Soros, Michael Moore et al, Bush wins the election, especially in a manner that is at all disputable, the left-wing crazies of our day may feel inspired to take things to the next level.

Rex Stetson

“a vote for bush is a vote for bin laden”. Jeez. Like, I’m totally sure they agree on foreign policy especially. Both pro-Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, both want Washington DC hit with a suitcase nuke, etc. How moronic. At least he could have said something like “ A vote for Bush is a vote for War/death/the rich/big oil” which would have been a more intelligent. I can only think that he must mean that a vote for Bush promotes anti-american sentiment that Bin Laden would capitalize on, which granted is a pretty complex statement to reduce to a t-shirt effectively. Still, it’s a real oversimplification of one tiny part of the whole geopolitical picture.

He might have been making a comparison between Bush and Bin Laden’s methods: they are both perceived to be wealthy religious people, politically motivated agressors who use blowing up buildings and killing people to achieve their goals. But this is even a flawed analogy. One might as well say “a vote for Churchill is a vote for Hitler” or “a vote for Sharon is a vote for Arafat” .. Assuming that Al Qaeda is even conducting a Clauswitzean war that is meant to achieve political ends “by other means” the way Bush is. I suspect it’s more of a political “statement”, an end in itself. Again, it’s apples and oranges. Nonsensical slogans like that sound like those brave new world/v for vendetta/1984 "nightmare totalitarian future" brand of newspeak: freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, etc

Even if what mr t-shirt was saying was true, wouldn't the converse ( or is it inverse, I always forget) br true: would a vote for Bin Laden then be a vote for Bush?

If so, those lefties better start ramping up some aggressive support for the War on Terror/Islamofascism- so we don't all inadventantly end up supporting the far worse evil of President Bush! It's a slippery slope here, lefties- a little terrorist-sympathizing now could lead to a NeoCon/Bush win in November!!

Maybe we can give the anti-Bush crowd a t-shirt that could read:

Fight Terrorism or Bush Will Have To Do It For You!

bender

um - its time for us to all start wearing Reagen tee shirts..

Dawn W

Dear Young Curmudgeon,

I really admire your love for our country and your inclination to put what's best over partisanship. Something few are willing to do.

I think part of the reason you are down is that you are in NYC. Which is fringe-left-friendly. I live in Austin, TX which is also fringe-left-friendly. It's easy to feel isolated.

However, look at all the red states from the 2000 election. They will prevent civil unrest simply because they have a job to do - whether at the ranch, or at the plant, or at the store, or at the garage, etc. Reasonable, responsible people have to work for a living. A good portion of them also have children to raise. Work, parenting, and whatever's left for enjoying this fabulous country doesn't leave a lot of time for protesting, shopping for that A vote for Bush... TShirt, painting a BusHitler sign, or taking up puppetry.

As painful as the 2000 election was...and I was seriously depressed as a result of watching all the bad behavior in Florida...there is not a day post 9/11 that I don't thank God George W. Bush is president. As painful as this polarization is, it beats firemen picking parts of loved ones out of rubble. And I truly believe that is what this election will be about.

Remember: the media amplifies the voice of the moonbats. So then, when you bump up against it in real life it tends to give anecdotal validity to the media message.

Be strong. Steel yourself. Fight the GOOD fight.

And when it really gets bad, soak for an hour in the mental hot tub that is Protein Wisdom or INDC or Allah's place.

Karol

It's really not as bad as it seems. Yes, most of our fellow New Yorkers are morons but there is a big conservative scene. Come check it out! Allah should come too.

fat kid

It's like a political renaissance or something. There are all these people who are completely green, and totally new to politics, and everyone thinks their opinion is the most important thing in the world, no matter how naive/partisan it is. With the advent of the blogosphere, and the implosion of the advertising/tech sector, we're left with a bunch of creative out of work people. Unfortunately many of them are also of my demographic (and specific age group) - mid 20's, college grads - we caught the ass end of the tech boom after we graduated from college, got our 6 figure jobs, then within a year *poof* no more job, welcome to the unemployment line. Welcome to the "real world". These same people are the ones who looked to our leadership, and got mad - who else could they turn to? They were the match, the economic dump was the spark, MM is the gasoline.

With politics being the latest "hip" thing to be into, every new jerk with an opinion (myself included) jumped into the fray.

I honestly believe the combination of the tech bust, the marketing/advertising bust, the general condition of the economy, the nature of its recovery (jobless) and a principaled (republican aka easy to hate, we have no hearts) leadership has created a *VERY* unique situation, where in all the wrong pieces have fallen in all the wrong spots. At once. The net result? Angst. Distrust. Anger. Maybe even true hatred. Adding insult to injury: the very people who got f*cked in the above scenario, are by definition the vocal minority - the smart, edgy, hip, tech-savvy early adopters. They/we had a *lot* to lose, and they lost it.

No effing idea how we're gonna get away from this shit situation, but I don't feel this is some sort of trend - I do believe it's a fad. Maybe you're right, we do need another president, however even after this election, MoveOn is still gonna be collecting donations, and their job is to bitch, and the instant Kerry doesn't toe their line, they're just gonna let loose with another barrage of shit. Maybe then will people actually realize WTF *truly* happenened back in '02-'04, but until then, they're just too damn angry to be bothered with fact, and rational discussion.

/fat kid out.

Eric

Karol:

I was originally saying the same thing over at Allah's, but something's changed since the movie came out. It's really had an effect.

paul a'barge

Welcome to the Culture War.

Iraq is just a battle in that war.

So, are you going to get over it, and commit to victory in the Culture War? If so, welcome to the fight. Otherwise, take something for the vapors and stand aside.

Bottomline? DIMocRATs are NOT patriotic and a vote for Kerry is indeed a vote for Bin Laden. And shudder all you want, but it's the truth.

Victory is defined as a dead Bin Laden and mute DIMocRATs.

Matt

I agree with Eric. Even the liberals I like seem to believe what Moore is saying. It's gotten to the point where communication is futile.

I feel like these days I'm about a few sentances away from ending up in a morgue. Or killing someone. Uber Rancor.

Dude, where's my countrymen?

Dave in Texas

I won't matter whether Bush ekes out a razor thin win, or stomps Kerry in a landslide - the symptoms you're describing will be just the same. What used to be the lunatic fringe is becoming more mainstream Democratic. Hell, they have to say something. What else do they have? The swing voter isn't going to listen to a moderate call for change.

It's about power, and wanting it back. Dems are using shrill because they are desperate. Funny, in a way, because in a way they still own the dialogue.

There were right wing nutbags in the 90s making movies too (but nobody paid attention to them, and reasonable conservatives shunned them, cause they were nutbags).

It really isn't that bad Eric. I remember the same rants in the 80s - and it was harder to pick on Reagan. Stay tough. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ideas win.

Joel

I hope that Bush wins convincingly. I think this is th emost mometnous election since 1860. Kerry will be a disaster for this coutnry. The thought of George Soros smirking makes me want to lie down and die.

Eric

In case a representative of the "fairness in condeming intemperate rhetoric brigade" happens by (I think Matt Welch deputizes them or something), let me make clear that I think paul a'barge's comments above are way, way over-the-top.

spider

>Everyone is a maniacal partisan until proven otherwise.

No, liberals and conservatives are maniacal partisans.
The rest of us have to sift through all the crap to get at some kind of objective truth.

Sonetka

I think Fat Kid has a good point. My husband and I and 99% of our friends are in the demographic he describes - albeit we didn't all get $600K jobs out of college. But there a good many of them right now who are un- or underemployed and who, to put it crudely, need to expend their energies on something, so some expend it on hating. We've lost a couple of friends over the Moore/politics in general issue. One of them (albeit one whom I doubt is ever going to have a full-time job anywhere, at any time) froths at the mouth whenever Bush is mentioned and seriously believes that the draft will be brought back and we'll all be minions of Obersturmfuehrer Bush. Put as many facts in front of him as you want, he won't believe it. Moore has opened his eyes. Sad, really.

TmjUtah

Crying 'balance' as a prerequisite for a stable democracy is ludicrous when one party clearly finds the constitutional limits of the government an obstacle and not a guide.

Partisan? No. Citizen.

Ben

Bush's policies are designed to keep America safe, and frankly they have worked so far. Changing those policies, especially to policies of appeasement, or handing France or the UN a veto on any defensive action we take, is endangering the lives of Americans. It helps the terrorists.

As a military and economic superpower, the only way we can lose this war is if we give up. And that appears to be the alternative offered by the left, if not the Democratic party. Blame ourselves, apologize to the world for living, and let the terrorists kill us. To me, that is Treason. That is unpatriotic, as well as stupid and insane.

The left may bitch and moan and complain about being called treasonous insane morons all they like. But they are going to have to admit sooner or later they have handed the right a sword with which to use against them. People are just calling them as they see them. Bitching about it ain't going to help. You on the left need to come up with a workable alternative, if you want to regain a perception as something other than what you look like right now.

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